24 replies to this topic

[chucklesMuch]

I really wish that player tiers were visible in-game.

Yes, yes I know that PSR may bear no correlation to player actual skill... and good players have bad games etc etc... But there is a difference in playing in teams with people with 100’s and 1000’s of hours of game time vs new or newish players.

Last night I was playing on the NA server (quick play solo). I spent my time mastering a LCT-1V (such a adrenaline rush… playing the whole game, knowing one decent hit and you rekt) and a non-elite cutefox with JJ’s that included 4xMG’s – pre-emptively excited about MG buffs, even bought a MG range module for it ;P – (compulsory saving for PT 1.0)

And there was such a weird mix of games and mech movement (on both sides) that some of my drops must have had a lot of inexperienced, or drunk, or asleep pilots or pilots playing in classes/mechs that they don’t normally use. Given some of the strange places on some of the maps that we fought and the amount of; solo leeroying, non twisting, rear damage tanking, sand people nascaring, pilots fleeing from positive mismatches, people abusing people for taking LRM builds, people stating they were refusing to lock in case a LRM got a hit etc… the mech movements especially reminded me of games from when I was a lower tier.

And to fair there were also some really good games with solid teamwork both with and without coms… overall I had a really fun night! (Towards the end I became one of the too tired to play, semi-asleep at the mouse pilots… in a light with MG’s… a LRM boat might have been more appealing at this stage even to the lurm haters LOL).

[RestosIII]

But also, if PSR becomes fully visible, you're going to get people telling low tier players that they're the entire reason they lost, and berating them for it/complaining to the enemy team that they have them, and higher tier players will be relied on to carry even harder because people will know they're higher tier. The amount of abuse it would cause is... worrying, to say the least.

[jss78]

The PSR formula and people bubbling up to T1 should be so easy to fix.

Ultimately what you want is people who maintain, over a large sample of games, a W/L of 1.0 in solo queue to stay level. In solo queue W/L is really the bottom line -- again over a large enough sample.

If the above is not true, tune the match score thresholds for up/down/no PSR change until it is true.

Now I have no idea what type of data mining PGI's doing, probably they do something like this already, but it definitely seems to me that it's too easy to go up.

Edit: crap, meant to put this in KoalaBrownie's PSR thread

Edited by jss78, 08 December 2016 - 02:51 PM.

[chucklesMuch]

RestosIII, on 08 December 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

But also, if PSR becomes fully visible, you're going to get people telling low tier players that they're the entire reason they lost, and berating them for it/complaining to the enemy team that they have them, and higher tier players will be relied on to carry even harder because people will know they're higher tier. The amount of abuse it would cause is... worrying, to say the least.

I agree with you that are potential negatives... but wonder if its likely to be a short term adjustment for people. As other MP online games let people see the levels of the various players (often for both teams).

It’s not a deal breaker for me… but I would play differently if I knew that most of my teammates are way more or less experienced. (Maybe I just need to assume the worst when I don’t recognise any of the other player names)

[Xmith]

I have scores less than 200 from time to time. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of T1 players that sometimes have dismal scores as well. At this level, it does not bother me to see very low scores on my team. These same players may have had a good match prior and could probably have big scores in their following matches. I know players will have a bad match for some reason or another, sh!t happens. It makes no sense to judge a player based on single match.

[Carl Vickers]

The first few pages of the leader board are just full of people with 1 game ;p

[Tibbnak]

Just reset everyone back to tier 5 every three months with a reward system based on how much tier exp you acquired.

Cbills, Exp and Gxp, cosmetic colours and junk, supply cache keys, etc.
EDIT: could run an event and competition on the day of every PSR reset, and call it PUG day.

Edited by Tibbnak, 08 December 2016 - 04:13 PM.

[Xmith]

Carl Vickers, on 08 December 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

The first few pages of the leader board are just full of people with 1 game ;p

The best way to judge a player is by having a peak at their base stats, not the leader board. Someone who maintains a w/l greater than 1.0 average may indeed make it to T1.

Edited by Xmith, 08 December 2016 - 04:21 PM.

[chucklesMuch]

Xmith, on 08 December 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

I have scores less than 200 from time to time. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of T1 players that sometimes have dismal scores as well. At this level, it does not bother me to see very low scores on my team. These same players may have had a good match prior and could probably have big scores in their following matches. I know players will have a bad match for some reason or another, sh!t happens. It makes no sense to judge a player based on single match.

Judge people? What!??? No I’m not interesting in blaming people… what a waste of my time D:

I would like to know, say whilst waiting for readiness to happen, whether or not I should consider being helpful to new players or whether I can expect my team to already know the map and all the common strategies… which I will mostly default to unless we have a caller…

[Davers]

I I wonder, did anyone ask someone from PGI about PSR at Mechcon?

[Xmith]

chucklesMuch, on 08 December 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

Judge people? What!??? No I’m not interesting in blaming people… what a waste of my time D:

I would like to know, say whilst waiting for readiness to happen, whether or not I should consider being helpful to new players or whether I can expect my team to already know the map and all the common strategies… which I will mostly default to unless we have a caller…

I did not say anything about laying blame on any player. This is one thing I never do. Especially when my gameplay can leave a lot to be desired sometimes. It is counterproductive to speculate on your teammates perceived PSR unless they mention it during the match, truthfully.

I don't expect new player in any of my matches but it is always helpful to point out some reminders and a little bit of helpful strategies

Edited by Xmith, 08 December 2016 - 06:09 PM.

[chucklesMuch]

Xmith, on 08 December 2016 - 05:50 PM, said:

I did not say anything about laying blame on any player.

True you didn't.

Sorry - that was my interpretation.

I'm not sure what you mean by being judged? Were you meaning other peoples expectation of what a TierX player should or shouldn't achieve?

[Xmith]

chucklesMuch, on 08 December 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

True you didn't.

Sorry - that was my interpretation.

I'm not sure what you mean by being judged? Were you meaning other peoples expectation of what a TierX player should or shouldn't achieve?

Something along these lines, yes. When you make it to T1 and T2, generally it means you are a good player. Like you mentioned before, there will be bad games for everyone. It does not mean a player does not belong in the match if they happen to be be having a hard time. It could be a number of reasons why they are having a bad match

[kyfire]

W/L is a lousy indicator of how good a player is. Consider this, you die within the first 30 seconds of a match, the rest of the team goes on and wins the match. You (even though you died) get credited with a win. Did you win? No you died. There is no individual wins or losses in MWO. Only team wins and losses.

[Deathlike]

kyfire, on 08 December 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

W/L is a lousy indicator of how good a player is. Consider this, you die within the first 30 seconds of a match, the rest of the team goes on and wins the match. You (even though you died) get credited with a win. Did you win? No you died. There is no individual wins or losses in MWO. Only team wins and losses.

It is, and yet it isn't (and moreso on the latter).

When random poop happens, it's easy to feel bad about your losses.

The thing is, if you're at least doing your part (as in, not being totally terrible), you usually come out on top more often than not.

Chances are, if you're doing more things to help the team win... you'll usually get a better W-L ratio.

[Wil McCullough]

Deathlike, on 08 December 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

It is, and yet it isn't (and moreso on the latter).

When random poop happens, it's easy to feel bad about your losses.

The thing is, if you're at least doing your part (as in, not being totally terrible), you usually come out on top more often than not.

Chances are, if you're doing more things to help the team win... you'll usually get a better W-L ratio.

i used to believe this. unfortunately now i've played enough matches to know that winning or losing is a complete crap shoot. in qp, there's so many variables at play that unless you're a proton level carry, any impact you have on the game barely changes your chances.

[Deathlike]

Wil McCullough, on 08 December 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

i used to believe this. unfortunately now i've played enough matches to know that winning or losing is a complete crap shoot. in qp, there's so many variables at play that unless you're a proton level carry, any impact you have on the game barely changes your chances.

You don't have to be Proton to win, but you can't totally derp either. A lot of players derp more than they realize. Sometimes it's the difference between a successful push, or a single file push of fail.

[Gladius Vittoris]

jss78, on 08 December 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

Now I have no idea what type of data mining PGI's doing, probably they do something like this already, but it definitely seems to me that it's too easy to go up.

I think pgi doesn't care all all about this.
It's an entire year quite every day we have a psr thread...

The best idea is to calculate psr doing a zero sum psr between all 24 players at the end of a match.
But guess what?
In a Townhall, PGI president asked what a zero sum is...

[Wil McCullough]

Deathlike, on 08 December 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

You don't have to be Proton to win, but you can't totally derp either. A lot of players derp more than they realize. Sometimes it's the difference between a successful push, or a single file push of fail.

i've actually completely derped on quite a number of matches (the die within 2 minutes with 40 damage kinda derp) and pulled out a win because my team didn't derp as much as the other team.

i've had way less matches where i do 1k+ damage, kill 4-5 and still lose because i got overwhelmed.

the single player's ability matters little when you're faced with 23 other players of a completely random skill level.

unless the single player's ability is as overwhelming as say someone like proton.

[Deathlike]

Wil McCullough, on 09 December 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

i've actually completely derped on quite a number of matches (the die within 2 minutes with 40 damage kinda derp) and pulled out a win because my team didn't derp as much as the other team.

i've had way less matches where i do 1k+ damage, kill 4-5 and still lose because i got overwhelmed.

the single player's ability matters little when you're faced with 23 other players of a completely random skill level.

unless the single player's ability is as overwhelming as say someone like proton.

There's a reason why "carrying" is a thing.

If you're doing the work of 2 or 3 players by yourself (in terms of killing ability, not just positioning and focus firing), this is what top tier teams actually look for as it is more often than not conducive to success.

If you're "that guy" that believes in capping first in Conquest... running away when you have superior numbers to the enemy... this is what is calling "being a potato".

There's a reason why the solo queue is what it is... where people don't trust the person next to them... and why the group queue overwhelms others (refusing to work with everyone else)... it's the lack of teamwork in a team oriented game that is usually the biggest difference between winning and losing.